Thursday, November 4, 2010
Prison/Cemetery
The founders of a new colony, whatever Utopia of human virtue and happiness they might originally project, have invariably recognized it among their earliest practical necessities to allot a portion of the virgin soil as a cemetery and a prison. What comment does it make about human nature? Is Hawthorne presenting a pessimistic or a realistic view of human nature? Defend or contend that a prison is one of the first necessities in a new settlement.
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Human nature is first and fore most sinful. No matter how virtuous and rightuous a person is they all have sin within them. Hawthorne is presenting a realistic view of human nature. A prison is a key aspect to a well functioning settlement. It enstalls order within the settlement at a early stage so yes i believe it is one of the first necessities in a new settlement.
ReplyDeleteIn the opinion of the Puritans, everyone is full of sin. Today, this view of human nature is really pessimistic. I don't think that human nature is bad.. we can decide whether we act in a good or in a bad way.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, there are a lot of other things that are more important than a prison. Since they are Puritans I would have expected them to build a church first. The Prison is a sign of mistrust... not the best start for a new settlement.
uhhh...for some reason my computer translates half of your blog into German!!! :)
ReplyDeleteI think that to have a prison in any new settlement shows that the people expect there to always be people who will strike out against the laws that are set in there society. A prison acts as a place of punishment for those that have committed crimes. It is much the same way in that god punishes sinners by casting them into the pit of hell for eternity, expect this prison is earthly and is limited for only so much time. If there were no prisons in a new settlement, what would the puritans do with all of the people who were committing crimes? Punishing them by putting them in prison is a way of saying "you had better not do this again.". It is a way of setting the bad people straight. Take that away and you take away a factor essential to keeping order in a society so that it doesn't fall apart.
ReplyDeleteI think this comments on the corruptness of human nature. Humans naturally have some evil in them, no matter who you are. Nobody is perfect and people are going to sin. It is obvious that a prison gets used in any society, no matter how big or small the town. I think Hawthorne is displaying a realistic view of human nature. No matter how much we deny it, humans are corrupt and there will always be people going against laws and getting punished. I don't think that a prison should be the first thing established in a town, but it definitely should be one of the first. You know for a fact that SOMEBODY is going to go against the law, and there has to be a place for that person.
ReplyDeleteI believe that this comments that human nature is flawed and incorrect. And I believe that Hawthorne is presenting a realistic view on human nature because many things in our human lives are flawed and incorrect for different reasons. A good example would be sin, people sin everyday. But the fact that these people are having the building of a prison AND a cemetery be their first priority is quite corrupt and unjust. It shows that this community of people possibly has trust issues and that it is known among this community that there are issues, and that they can only be solved by building a prison and a cemetery.
ReplyDeleteSince this book was written in the 17th century puritan time era, I believe that Hawthorne starts out this book in the mind set of a puritan. In the bible it says that man is born with natural sin and it is purged in baptism. The prison represents that once a village is settled, its criminals(or natural sinners) are purged. I feel that he is makeing a realistic view on human society not through what he has witnessed in his life, but what he thinks all man is predestined to do. In my personal view a prison is not hte first thing you build, its just stupid. you build a farm, hospital, then houses. its just common sense.
ReplyDelete...i agree what everyone else said
ReplyDeleteHawthorne is presenting the realistic view of human nature. Building a prison first in a new settlement would be a smart thing to do because there would be some people who think they can do whatever they want and take advantage of the fact that there is no punishment for what they do.
ReplyDeletei think that a prison shouldnt have been one of the first things to go up in a new settlement. for starters, it was in the puritan era. and since most puritans' life revolved around church, i believe that a church should have been put up first. BUT i do see where hawthorn was coming frim when he wrote this. humans have a very sinful nature by instinct. and the prison could be a symbol of how we cage ourselves in and create our own walls around ourself. and the wild rose bush would be the glimmer of hope that everyone has for their own lives. and that each person can control their own destiny.
ReplyDeleteI think in Today's society it would have been more of a necessity in the starting of a new community. In this Puritan community you would thin that they would trust each other more wanting to do God's work. I mean obviously the need of a cometary is correct, but it also brings about a morbid sense to the story. It kind of sets the mood for the rest of the story, and shows us more about the town, and the people in it. With the prison being another one of the oldest building in the town, it brings about a sense of betrayal, and no trust. Obviously, one of the main reasons they built the jail, was because they suspected it would come in handy. It was kind of like a cry for crime. I think this a very realistic view on society, and of human nature. In Puritan time nature wasn't considered a gift from God, most of it, like the woods, was the Devil's work. It's a realistic view of society because it immediately hows tells us that no one trust anyone else, much like in today's world. I am not going to say that it was right for the prison to go up first, nor am I going to say that it was wrong. I think that it was a response to something that had happened in the past. Sparking the need for a jail.
ReplyDeletei think this is pessimistic, of course there are going to be people who go against the law and there should be a prison in the town, but it should not have been the first thing they built. As they are beginng to build their new town they already are expecting people to sin, instead i would have epected them to build a church, or homes.
ReplyDeletei think its more pessimistic , because i think they should be building prisons but i wouldnt agree that a prison should be one of the first buildings built.
ReplyDeleteI think that Hawthorne was being realistic. Everyone has good and evil in them, we all just have different buttons that can be pushed that will take us from one side to another. A prison is a necessity in a new settlement, if you have no where to put the criminals, what will stop them from doing wrong?
ReplyDeleteConstructing a prison as one of the first buildings in a new colony is an example of man's self-rightouesness in trying to demonstrate a life of purity and "godliness." When it is said that life should be lived through obeying God's laws and commands, a church would conduct as more of an appropriate settlement to erect first, rather than a prison. Their expectations of the colonists to sin before anything else, shows their doubts in the townspeople and their human nature. Having said this, a prison should be one of the first buildings to settle in the colony because all people are sinners, and crimes will be commited. Despite any "good deeds" fulfilled.
ReplyDeleteI think that the comment it makes on human nature is that we were born to sin before we die, so that's why they made a prison and cemetery as if to show that those two places are all we need. Hawthorne is showing a pessimistic view on human nature, it shows that he thinks no one is born good, but then again it is realistic because everyone has sinned in one way or another, no one is perfect and we all make mistakes. But i do agree that a prison is needed, maybe not the first thing to be built; first should be homes and places of worship (churches) but it should come shortly after those, because without a place for criminals then chaos could unleash with nothing stopping crime.
ReplyDeleteI think it shows that the colony is full of meanies
ReplyDeleteI think that it shows that they were ready for people to commit crimes, and that they expected more people too.
ReplyDeletewell considering everyone else said what i was going to say, i think society is never perfect. Things happen because god wants them to. Things happen for a reason. They should have built something that would benefit them like... farms or a church so people could receive forgiveness from god for their sins.
ReplyDeleteHawthorne is trying to state that a hundred out of a hundred times people try to start a colony it will never become the utopian society they set out to create because nobody is perfect and because of this Hawthorne says they need to build someplace to punish people for their sins, so i think it is pessimistic.
ReplyDeleteHawthorne is saying everyone is sinful. No matter what good they do, they still have sin. When they wanted to start a colony, they biult a cemetery and prison first because they thought everyone was sinful.
ReplyDeleteI think it's in human nature for everybody to die and break the rules. I also think that hawthorne was being realistic, but they shouldn't have built a prison first.
ReplyDeleteI think hawthorn portrays a rather realistic view of human nature because in my opinion, all humans are born sinners and are naturally evil(but have hope in asking for forgiveness). It's realistic because they realize that it will be needed because humans will inevitably do something that will require them to be seperated from the rest of society.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I would like to say that I am surprised that a McDonalds wasn't the first thing built. Anyway, I think Hawthorne was being realistic. People are bad and go to prison, so they built one. People die and are buried, so they built a cemetery. I think a prison isn't a bad building to start off with while creating a new town. People can lock up their goods in the prison to keep them safe while building the rest of the town.
ReplyDeleteI think it is pessimistic that Hawthorne attaches this belief to all humanity. I believe much of it is owed to the strict and arduous beliefs the puritans followed and it is pessimistic that he says human nature instead of puritan nature. Although a prison inevitably becomes a necessity. It is not the first thing that should be built, because it is useless until someone commits a crime and that factor can vary depending on the community and the type of people that populate the settlement.
ReplyDeleteWell, i was making pizza while i was reading this section, so please understand if it doesn't sound quite right. As my eyes read each word of the first chapter, The Prison Door, it was like a tapestry was being woven in my mind. I could see the outside of the prison, the ancient door that was only 20 years old, the sparkling rose bush, and our main character being led inside. I could get a feel for the mood, the setting, seeing the sky being gray and cloudy, the old prison looming darkly over their heads, the rough ground path leading to the door so weather beaten and aged. In the eyes of the girl, she looks to the side and sees the striking beauty of the rose bush, glimmering faintly with water sprinkled about it and some of the roses in bloom. A last chance of the beauty of the outside world. Turning back to the door, it opens slowly, showing the pure darkness of the inside and the terror of her fate. Now hows THAT for pizza on the brain?
ReplyDeleteIm really not sure how to edit, because after i posted i realized i'd made quite a few mistakes. stupid pizza. to answer the questions above, i think that it says that even for a short period of time humans can make the most practical uses seem old and broken. Hawthorne's views are very realistic, stating that humans can only do so much before it comes crashing down on them. I believe this because they just settled in a new land, they hadn't been there for very long, and already things that they built are starting to come apart and age, like the prison door. The rose bush must symbolize that even with all of the natural beauty of the land gone there is still some left. Not much can be said along those lines for humans though.
ReplyDeleteRealistically, Hawthorne has a point. Though it is pretty obvious he's looking at this from a grim perspective. Yes, humans can't build any sort of settlement without plans to build a prison, but I'd like to think it's simply out of habit or caution. Really, it's hard to say if we should or shouldn't have prisons, but the world would be a much better place if we truly didn't need them. As for the cemetary, that's just necessary since people die. It's not like human society would want to keep corpses like antiques. That would be disturbing and gross.
ReplyDeleteThe comment it makes about human nature is it states that in puritan time, it was more dark and not as outspoken as society today. Hawthorne is being realistic about his choice to intraduce a cematary, and a prison as the first things in the novel, and town. This is because if one thinks realistically, everyone is going to a grave at one point, and in puritan time, it was much easier to sin then to be perfect. This sets the mood of the book.the prison represents black flowers of a civilized society. also the rose bus next to the prison grows in an unlikely place represents something to comfort the prisoners. Even though there could of been many other requirements in a settlement, a prison is not the first thing someone would think of, but it should be required in a town.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Hathorne is pessimistic in this statement. In the Puritan days everybody believed that everybody was full of sin. In todays society not everybody is. that is why i believe he stated a prison and a cemetary in the begging of the story since Puritans were dark gloomy people. As in todays society that wouldnt be the first thing that would come to mind in a place.
ReplyDeleteHawthorme is being pessimistic because a cemetery is not the first edifice needed when building a new settlement. The first thing needed is a home then comes the church and then maybe a prison/cemetery. But this seems to be foreshadowing what the people's beliefs and morals are in the story and it seems kind of scary how they will treat her.
ReplyDeleteI think Hawthorne is showing a pretty realistic view of human nature. In all humans there is the possibility to commit crimes and break the law. I think that the first two things that were built, the cemetary and the prison, were constucted because death is unavoidable and humans are expected to at some point do wrong.
ReplyDeleteHawthorne, I believe, is showing a realistic view of human nature. I agree that it's a good idea to first put up a prison, because you want to make sure that people in the new world know that for everything they do there could be a consequence for their actions. I also believe that making a cemetery is a good idea because we always need a place to put the bodies of the deceased. Even though I agree with it I still don't think that a cemetery and a prison should be the first priority. There are plenty of other things that should be taken care of first.
ReplyDeleteI think that Hawthorne is being realistic. To me, it is nesessary to first build a prison. I mean where else would the bad people go? And also building a cemetery right next to the prison was a pretty good idea because there are many people not only dying outside the prison but there are also many people dying in the prison. Goood idea:)
ReplyDeleteIt is saying that it is human nature to sin. No matter who you are, you will sin. No one is perfect! I think Hawthorne is presenting a realistic view of human nature. Hawthorne is right. Everybody sins. I think it is necessary to have a prison, however, I don't believe it should be one of the first priorities in a new settlement. You can get away with out a prison for a little while.
ReplyDeleteHawthorne is saying that human nature is sinful. Humans want to be good and pure, and often times wrongfully see themselves this way amid violent acts. However, he is saying that it is inevitable that humans will make mistakes and be sinful, so naturally a new community realizes that it needs the necessities by which to punish people who will undoubtedly sin. Although his statement may be a bit dramatic, I believe that Hawthorne is being realistic here, because everyone in the world does sin. I would have thought that the first thing the Puritans would build would be a church. Homes and other necessities would need to come first.
ReplyDeleteHuman nature is the nature of humans. And Hawthorne is all like "I'm gonna be negative and stuff because my first book was crap." So he was all emo and stuff while making this one. Sorry didn't read yet.
ReplyDeleteThrough the readin, Hawthorne displays that human nature is sinful and imperfect. Upon the people's realization of this sinfulness, they find it necessary for punishment to take place. I believe that in mant cases Hawthorne is correct by stating that we are all imperfect and the world is full of sin. I would think that the Puritans would build a church for worship and praise, one would think that to them, it would come before a prison and cemetary.
ReplyDeleteI think this meaans that human nature is somthing that people cant help. But that they try to do what right upon realizing that humans are sinful.
ReplyDeleteI think that it is human nature to be sinful. It was wrong for them to build a prison first, but I think Hawthorne was being realistic.
ReplyDeleteI think the colony if full of jerks and its human nature that people are selfish and that everyone commits sins. Hawthorne does a good job on displaying that human nature is sinful and imperfect.
ReplyDeleteI think that the human nature is to be sinful, so that the town had to create a jail and cemetary because they knew that no matter what there would be problems with the community
ReplyDeleteHawthorne gives a realistic view of human nature. Maintaining order in a society is one of the most important things. A brand new society that has not yet established laws and rules needs something that will keep the population in check. This prison and cemetery can serve as warning of what happens when one tries to disturb the peace. The law is unforgiving and building these structures first serves as a warning to all. Once this is established, the rest of the community can thrive. Humans tend to do whatever they want given the choice and this limits their thinking of being able to dp whatever they want.
ReplyDeleteHuman Nature based on Utopian Societies have been based on the Idea that if a perfect society could be created without having any distractions in a experimental society then it can be reflected and copied throughout society. Nathaniel Hawthorne is creating a very melodramatic view of what the Utopian society is suppose to be. He is very correct that the society and human nature follows that of the Scarlet Letter and how Humans have many sins but have some small good in them. The word choice of Hawthorne makes the reading melodramatic and makes it look unreal when it really does portray the society of these people.
ReplyDeleteHuman nature is that we will mess things up because we aren't perfect and part of our nature is that; so throughout life we can discover what it means to be a virtues person and what it takes to get to the perfect utopia that we call heaven. Hawthorne is creating a place where human error is okay becuase it helps us learn what god really wants us to be in his eyes. Also a prison in a new place or society is greatly needed because it maintains balance and order.
ReplyDeleteI think Hawthorne is presenting a realistic view. Building a prison and a cemetery first was smart because people dying is inevitable and in every community there will be people who try to defy authority
ReplyDeleteIt shows how even though the Puritans hate sins and such they love to be around it, or watch it happen. go out and find;look for sins. It's a realistic picture of human nature. People are attracted to things that they make themselves or others believe to be unorthodox. i.e. gossip, stealing, adultry etc. People believe these things are bad yet are still drawn or involve themselves with them. The prison is a symbol that shows this. they put people on display in this monumental structure that contrasts from the rest of the town.
ReplyDeleteWhat Hawthorne says in simpler words is basically, The founders of a new colony, whatever perfect society that does what is right and avoids what is wrong might originally communicate vividly, have withouth chang recognized it among their earliest practical necessities to assign a portion of the virgin soil as a cemetery and a prison. The comment that this makes about human nauture is that humans naturaly sin and die and that there is know avioding it. I believe that it is a realistic view considering the time period. during this time period everyone seemed to expect the worse out of people for example, the witch trials. I agree that a prision is one of the first things needed but I believe the cemetery should come first because it is a fact that everyone dies but it is an opinion that everyone does a sin worth of being put in jail.
ReplyDeleteHawthorne says that no matter what, being born is a sin and everyone lives with it. This passage, to me, stands as realistic because on how humans always sin no matter how pure they are. Flaws are everywhere even when we might think we're doing the right thing at times.. I believe that new colonies should have a jail because there are always nut-jobs in communities that have to be put away due to terrible actions.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the founders of the colony wanted to put the virgin soil down because it represents human nature, I think it it shows innocence and hope for the people in the jail, as does the rose bush
ReplyDeleteThe choice they made in putting a cemetery and prison in first was both realistic and pessimistic because one must realize that though humans obviously have the capacity for good its even more obvious that we have the capacity for wrong doing and tend to act on that more often than our positive tendencies. It would have been naive thinking to expect people to act even more on those positive tendencies when they realize that there is no place established as a center of punishment, because that leaves less chance of repercussion if they act irrespectively towards the law.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that they included a prison and a cemetery as the first structures shows you that humans are sinful and corrupt by nature, and there's nothing that can really be done to fix it, but it's a realistic view on human nature because it's an inevitability that humans are going to sin. Prisons are definitely necessary because some of the more severe sins, like murder, can't just go unpunished and so you need a prison.
ReplyDeleteThis comment insinuates the inevitable occurrence of human sin. Although Hawthorne's comment appears to be solely pessimistic, it is also the realistic view of human nature. Unfortunately, because a perfect Utopian society does not exist, prisons should be one of the first establishments in a new settlement. Criminals without punishment for wrongful doings will prove to be detrimental to a new society trying to progress and expand onward.
ReplyDeleteHuman nature is always going to be sinful no matter how virtuous or pure someone is. Hathorne portays a inevitable occurrence of human sin. Hawthorne is portaying a realistic side of nature no matter how much we want to be in a perfect Utopia. A prison is a key aspect to a well functioning settlement. It enstalls order within the settlement and allows the sinful people to be an example of what not to do.
ReplyDeleteThe comment that is being made about human nature is that everyone is sinful. Hawthorne is presenting a realistic view of human nature because we all are not perfect, we all sin. I do not believe a prison should be one of the first necessities in a new settlement because its like going into something negatively, expecting people to mess up. I think one of the first necessities should be a church or something, especially since they are Puritans.
ReplyDeleteEveryone sins. and Hawthorne was being realistic about the prison and cemetery being built first because those are the 2 things that are used the most.
ReplyDeleteHawthorne's comment expresses that it is our human nature to be sinful. His view is quite realistic since it is true that we sin on a daily basis. I believe that in a new religious community, the first thing that should be built should be the church. What good does a prison do to start off any community? A church would be more benificial for the beginning of a new community because government goes hand in hand with it.
ReplyDeleteThis is showing that no matter how good someones intentions are, everyone sins. I think hawthorne is presenting a realistic view of human nature. Also I think a prison is an important thing to build early in a new community becase if not people can continue to do wrong without any type of punishment.
ReplyDeleteI think that this is just being realistic, Having the prison will warn those not to commit a crime or else they'll end up there. Its also necessary for them to have a place to hold criminals. Even the people in the community are being realistic by building this because they know everyone sins. I don't think this makes Hawthorne sound like a pessimist, it is a realistic view of human nature. This is a community with people who are eventually going to die. Having a cemetery is necessary for them so they have a place to bury the dead. They were being smart in deciding what they needed for their community.
ReplyDeleteIn a way Hawthorne is being realistic.. like everyone else is saying, everyone is bound to sin at sometime in their life. No one is perfect and sometimes what some people think are sins, other people disagree and think they arent. It all depends on your personal view. But it was smart to build a prision at first. They need a place were they can put the people who do wrong in the community, based on the rules of course.
ReplyDeleteHawthorne is realistic. It makes sense to build a prison first in the community rather than a church because the Puritan belief is so strict. They focus more on criminals which creates fear in everyone, which the Puritans thrive on.
ReplyDeleteHawthorne is realistic in the way he states that they built a prison bofore building a church. A sin to them is like a terrist to us in the United States.
ReplyDelete...I'm not exactly sure that a prison should have been built before the church because of how much God's word is to them, but it definantly is realistic.
ReplyDeleteI think a prison should be built first because you might have heretics...
ReplyDeleteit shows that even though they believe in purtatism they build a cementary for the dead...they build a prison to punish them because they're mean
ReplyDeleteIt is showing that everyone sins. Even the puritans, who frown on the simpliest mistakes or wrong doings, have their own faults. It is also informing us that by having the prison puritans also believe in punishment, and by the same token, like seeing people being punished. Also.... ummm....... I LOVE GABY P =))!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI think he believed they were both, because they believe in building a utopia and listening to whatever God said. But yet, they built a Prison and a Cemetery. If they were wanting to be completely perfect, they wouldnt need either. It just shows that humans strive to hard to achieve perfection, but its not possible. And the Prison and Cemetery show just that.
ReplyDeletei think this comment is a realistic view on how hawthorne sees human nature. Humans naturealy make mistakes which make them sin. The people built a prison because they are bound to commit sin and go to prison. The cementary is built because purtians look forward to the after life.
ReplyDeleteI think that this comment is presenting a very realitic view on how Hawthorne sees prison life. Humans by nature are sinners and so it is nessassary that they build a prison quicky in the town to put all the sinners. Because evebntually they will sin and they need a place to out them.That is what the prison cemetary is for.
ReplyDeleteHumans are naturally sinful, since the day Adam and Eve both sinned our world has fallen. Hawthorne suggests to the reader that in order to maintain order, there needs to be consequences to those who continue to sin. The prison suggests that even in the Puritan world sin is a big factor and can affect the entire town if not controlled properly.
ReplyDeletein my personal opinion human nature is not the same with everyone some prefer to bad and some perfer to be good and as for having a jail as a nessity in a new settlement is not needed they should be focusing on homes and food and not worrying about who should be put away. the puritans are so hypcritical they hate sin but yet they wait for someone to mess up so they can ridicule them for it, to mme thats not being pure at heart hoping for the chance to inflict pain pain mentaly and pyschialy
ReplyDeleteI think it's human nature for people to want a place for the dead because those were people they knew and loved. Also i think it's human nature to think that other people are going to do bad things so then we need a prison to keep these people away from the good people in society so not everyone else gets curupt.I think Hawthorne is presenting a realistic view of human nature. I don't agree that a prison should be the first things to do in a new settlement because it's not that important. I feel like there are better things to do first before a prison.
ReplyDeleteHe was being realistic. I see most of the Puritan population as being hypocritical. They all talk about being so pure and good but, in all actuallity they are sinnful and just won't admit it. Every human has done sine sin no matter how big or small it's still a sin. Though a prison is a very important part of the community but, I wouldn't say that it should have been one of the first things they built.
ReplyDeletehuman nature is flawed, imperfect, and broken. It's been this way since the fall. Hawthorne is representing an accurate portrayal of human nature, and his disgust at the first erection of this Puritan society is well grounded. Building a prison first is a cowardly way to found a community, assuming that it will be needed before anything else.
ReplyDeleteHuman nature is full of sin. Hawthorne is presenting a realistic view of mankind. I don't think that it is neccessary to make the first thing you build in a town a jail because that just shows that you don't trust anyone to be good in the community.
ReplyDeleteHuman nature is full of sin. Every human that ever walks the earth will sin. I believe this is what Hawthorne is trying to imply in this comment about the jail and the cemmetary in the first chapter of the book. He claims that the citizens don't have much faith in human nature because these two things were the first to be built in the new settlement when the Puritans arrived in Boston.
ReplyDelete